Makes sense. That said, I do think this video is a really good primer.
Is all content equal? If not, then an RSS reader is not the right place to consume say a new lead that showed up in your Salesforce Database, your subscribed media channels, a competitor acquisition, and a heads up about a traffic jam on your route home.
Scott Karp
· 2 years ago
Sameer,
Most RSS readers do allow you to group feeds into folders, categories, etc., but the overarching theme of most RSS explanations still hinges on a "cram it all in one place" approach.
Max Kalehoff
· 2 years ago
Scott, I find it hilarious when people say they subscribe to one thousand or so RSS feeds, like it's some sort of bragging right. I've got about 100 and I can barely keep up with that. I'm a pretty good skimmer, too. I find that RSS just ends up working best for a very small, finite list of sources, including key search-engine queries I care deeply about. In addition to those few key feeds, I think the real killer app -- which gets no credit -- is social navigation. I find, consume and interact with content based on my social network, across multiple platforms, including email, blogs bookmarking services, etc. - Max Kalehoff
Sameer
· 2 years ago
Scott, Beleive me, I'm with you - our raison d'être' is to enable content to be filtered and consumed where it makes sense depending on the importance of each peice of content is to the consumer. Folders/catagories in a Reader can only go so far :).
That said, I still think that moving from 'visiting' web sites to consuming sections of websites in one place is step 101 for many many people. In some ways that's how many of us RSS hounds were drawn to feed reading in the first place way back when. It took some time for us to realize that our RSS readers were starting to look like that pile of unread magazines on our coffee tables.
Mattias
· 2 years ago
I think unfiltered rss has a lot of value in it's own, a value that of course depends on your particular information habits. For someone who visits a lot of randomly updated sites where 50% of visits are "nothing new, dang"-stops, a couple of 10-20 feeds only frees up time without resulting in unmanageable TMI, that surely must have some value? For me, tracking some 150 sources, unfiltered feeds is invaluable since many of my feeds only updates weekly or even monthly. Though recently I have created some keyword-filtering Yahoo!-pipes for the high volume feeds which had too many uninteresting items so I see the value of filters (a _working_ social filter would be nice) but it's pretty provoking (I'm writing this..) and imho, wrong, to say that "without a filter, RSS has no value".
Eric
· 2 years ago
The problem with RSS is the same as with HTML.
Explaining it tends to focus on single uses - RSS Readers or making web pages, respectively. These explanations tend to miss the massive versatility of both technologies though. HTML is much more powerful than your grandmother's web page, obviously. So to is RSS - it's not just for reading blogs, but it also powers widgets, holds MySpace together, brings weather and traffic info to your browser, etc.
And the key similarity is that when implemented right, the end user shouldn't even be aware of it. No one needs to know HTML to use a web browser. Hell, they don't even need to know HTML exists. It needs to become the same with RSS - people need to be able to use the applications without knowing about the underlying technology. The fact that we need a video like this says to be that the applications (aggregators, at least) just aren't there yet.
Within the use of "aggregating blog posts", I absolutely agree with you - it's too easy to wind up with a flooded reader and there desperately needs a way to filter and sort the content on something other than a by feed basis. (Yahoo Pipes comes tantalizingly close to offering this, but I just can't bring myself to run every feed I subscribe to through there).
I want to manage my feed reading the same way I do Gmail, but sadly no one has yet given me the ability to do that.
aaron
· 2 years ago
Information overload isn't a flaw of RSS, it's a flaw in the reading applications. feedrinse.com
Scott Karp
· 2 years ago
Mattias,
One of the problems with how RSS is pitched to mainstream users -- as is the case in this video -- is that it assumes everyone information habits are the same. It would be MUCH more useful to demostrate the value of RSS around specific use cases, such as your habit of visiting lots of infrequently updated sites. That said, most people probably aren't in the habit of visiting lots of infrequently updated sites.
Eric,
RSS as a publishing technology, like HTML, is indeed very versatile and something that should not need to be explained. But because websites still have these prominent navigational links that invite people to "grab the feed" or "syndicate," there remains a huge communications gap.
Aaron,
Since mainstream consumers require a reading application to subscribe to RSS feeds, i.e. RSS doesn't exist for them outside of these applications, that is, I think, a distinction without a difference.
Dan Blank
· 2 years ago
You make a good point about how tech-savvy people need to be to understand and use RSS, and that the video (and most pro-RSS statements) do not take into account the reading habits of anyone that isn't in the tech or media industries.
However, I don't agree with your fire-hose example. Personal information habits are the key for this, or any other technology. Would you prefer to receive email in 12 different accounts so the fire-hose doesn't overwhelm you in a single account?
Would you prefer to shop for sweaters in 12 different shopping centers so that a single shopping mall doesn't overwhelm you with choice?
There needs to be a balance here - software alone cannot solve human stupidity or inability to manage basic information processes.
That said - i certainly agree with you and the other commenters that RSS has a ways to go before it is easily adoptable by mainstream audiences. Thanks! -Dan
Anne H
· 2 years ago
RSS won't go mainstream until webmasters better understand it and can convey the benefits to their users instead of believing it is the holy grail to getting more web traffic. Sadly, I think a lot of bloggers just check the box to add a feed to their template without understanding RSS.
As for filters, I think many types exist, but most people will rely on self filtering. They'll scan the headlines and click through or move on. Some will use the more advanced options like Yahoo! Pipes, ZapTXT, Feed Digest and to name a few.
At what % of usage, does an app become a "killer app"? And does the user have to recognize that they're using RSS? I suspect many My Yahoo! users don't.
Mike D.
· 2 years ago
I think the best analogy is:
RSS is to the internet what Tivo is to the television. It's an almost perfect analogy in that they both accomplish the following:
1. Push the content you want towards you and save you from having to surf. 2. Allow you to hone in on what you want. 3. Increase the usefulness of the medium by an order of magnitude.
The *only* problem with this analogy is that the people who still don't know exactly what a Tivo does are the same people we're all trying to turn on to RSS. Ugh.
Chris Saad
· 2 years ago
I agree with Aaron - it's not the fault of RSS, it's a fault of the readers.
Scott what filtered reader do you use? :)
Clyde Smith
· 2 years ago
Based on how killer app has been used in the past, RSS is no killer app.
And it doesn't need to be (unless that's where you're hoping to get rich).
I'm not a "mainstream" type user but I use many of the tools, such as feedreaders (bloglines, newsgator, yahoo), that regular folks might be tempted to use and, so far, they're all a disappointment. For that matter, so is RSS.
I use Feed Digest to mix some feeds for some semipublic projects I have going that are really for my own use, for example: fluxresearch.org
I'm finding that a good way to keep up with select blog and news feeds but some feeds don't play well with others so I can't even mix in everything in that I want.
What I'm trying to get at here is that RSS feeds and tools don't really function well enough to serve advanced users needs even after a lot of tweaking. And even though services like mobile phones have shown us that folks are willing to accept lower grade service if it adds useful functions and is understandable (i.e. it's a telephone with poor call quality but high mobility). The RSS-osphere combines just enough conceptual confusion with so so service to keep it out of mainstream awareness.
RSS needs two things to go mainstream: improved coding and services ubiquitous use in the school systems
Or maybe three: RSS apps that have relevance to kids
Fortunately, for my part, it doesn't matter how mainstream it gets. It's not like folks necessarily improve their coding and services just because they're popular!
Clyde Smith
· 2 years ago
If you decided to peek at my example of mixed feeds it's fluxresearch.com not .org. It's not anything special but now I have an excuse for making a couple more quick points.
RSS needs a filter? But I thought the bloggers were supposed to be doing the filtering.
It would be interesting to look at how people achieve their desired outcome of getting the news they want. It might expand the idea of filtering. It seems to me that I filter news when I choose or don't choose a feed source, when I go to Digg and use their filtering, when I rely on a recommendation via a blog that I trust.
Perhaps looking at all the ways people actually achieve the function of filtering could lead to better forms of feeds and feedreaders as well as new products.
Mike D: "RSS is to the internet what Tivo is to the television."
You mean, RSS allows me to copy content to watch later? Wait, you mean, the Tivo allows me to syndicate my content to other sites?
One of the difficulties is that the end user doesn't actually interact with RSS feeds, they use tools that use RSS. Really, focus on the tools and what they provide, not the feed and how it works, and you'll have a much better chance of reaching a mass market.
Josh
· 2 years ago
Regarding Clyde Smith's comment that
RSS needs two things to go mainstream: improved coding and services ubiquitous use in the school systems
Would the answer to ''improved coding'' be the migration of content over to XML from HTML?
Just curious.
Josh
Mike D.
· 2 years ago
Clyde: You said --
"You mean, RSS allows me to copy content to watch later? Wait, you mean, the Tivo allows me to syndicate my content to other sites?"
I wouldn't conflate the ideas of RSS to content *producers* and RSS to content *consumers*. I think there is much, much less of a problem with producers knowing what RSS is and how they can use it. If they produce, it is their job to know and they will eventually find out. Even in the case of amateurs with Blogger blogs, the RSS feeds are already built in.
It's consumers who need the most handholding, hence the Tivo analogy. "Syndicatable", "shareable", etc aren't the killer apps of RSS for consumers. Customized, cached, push content is. That's exactly what RSS is and that's exactly what Tivo is. To me the only thing consumers need to know about RSS right off the bat is this:
"Instead of constantly checking web sites to see what's new, choose the sites you like and have the new stuff pushed to you automatically so you can read it whenever you want."
Period. That's it.
There are a million other uses for RSS but that's the instant turn on for consumers. The "oh shit" moment, so to speak.
All Comments
Is all content equal? If not, then an RSS reader is not the right place to consume say a new lead that showed up in your Salesforce Database, your subscribed media channels, a competitor acquisition, and a heads up about a traffic jam on your route home.
Most RSS readers do allow you to group feeds into folders, categories, etc., but the overarching theme of most RSS explanations still hinges on a "cram it all in one place" approach.
I find it hilarious when people say they subscribe to one thousand or so RSS feeds, like it's some sort of bragging right. I've got about 100 and I can barely keep up with that. I'm a pretty good skimmer, too. I find that RSS just ends up working best for a very small, finite list of sources, including key search-engine queries I care deeply about. In addition to those few key feeds, I think the real killer app -- which gets no credit -- is social navigation. I find, consume and interact with content based on my social network, across multiple platforms, including email, blogs bookmarking services, etc.
- Max Kalehoff
Beleive me, I'm with you - our raison d'être' is to enable content to be filtered and consumed where it makes sense depending on the importance of each peice of content is to the consumer. Folders/catagories in a Reader can only go so far :).
That said, I still think that moving from 'visiting' web sites to consuming sections of websites in one place is step 101 for many many people. In some ways that's how many of us RSS hounds were drawn to feed reading in the first place way back when. It took some time for us to realize that our RSS readers were starting to look like that pile of unread magazines on our coffee tables.
Explaining it tends to focus on single uses - RSS Readers or making web pages, respectively. These explanations tend to miss the massive versatility of both technologies though. HTML is much more powerful than your grandmother's web page, obviously. So to is RSS - it's not just for reading blogs, but it also powers widgets, holds MySpace together, brings weather and traffic info to your browser, etc.
And the key similarity is that when implemented right, the end user shouldn't even be aware of it. No one needs to know HTML to use a web browser. Hell, they don't even need to know HTML exists. It needs to become the same with RSS - people need to be able to use the applications without knowing about the underlying technology. The fact that we need a video like this says to be that the applications (aggregators, at least) just aren't there yet.
Within the use of "aggregating blog posts", I absolutely agree with you - it's too easy to wind up with a flooded reader and there desperately needs a way to filter and sort the content on something other than a by feed basis. (Yahoo Pipes comes tantalizingly close to offering this, but I just can't bring myself to run every feed I subscribe to through there).
I want to manage my feed reading the same way I do Gmail, but sadly no one has yet given me the ability to do that.
One of the problems with how RSS is pitched to mainstream users -- as is the case in this video -- is that it assumes everyone information habits are the same. It would be MUCH more useful to demostrate the value of RSS around specific use cases, such as your habit of visiting lots of infrequently updated sites. That said, most people probably aren't in the habit of visiting lots of infrequently updated sites.
Eric,
RSS as a publishing technology, like HTML, is indeed very versatile and something that should not need to be explained. But because websites still have these prominent navigational links that invite people to "grab the feed" or "syndicate," there remains a huge communications gap.
Aaron,
Since mainstream consumers require a reading application to subscribe to RSS feeds, i.e. RSS doesn't exist for them outside of these applications, that is, I think, a distinction without a difference.
However, I don't agree with your fire-hose example. Personal information habits are the key for this, or any other technology. Would you prefer to receive email in 12 different accounts so the fire-hose doesn't overwhelm you in a single account?
Would you prefer to shop for sweaters in 12 different shopping centers so that a single shopping mall doesn't overwhelm you with choice?
There needs to be a balance here - software alone cannot solve human stupidity or inability to manage basic information processes.
That said - i certainly agree with you and the other commenters that RSS has a ways to go before it is easily adoptable by mainstream audiences.
Thanks!
-Dan
As for filters, I think many types exist, but most people will rely on self filtering. They'll scan the headlines and click through or move on. Some will use the more advanced options like Yahoo! Pipes, ZapTXT, Feed Digest and to name a few.
At what % of usage, does an app become a "killer app"? And does the user have to recognize that they're using RSS? I suspect many My Yahoo! users don't.
RSS is to the internet what Tivo is to the television. It's an almost perfect analogy in that they both accomplish the following:
1. Push the content you want towards you and save you from having to surf.
2. Allow you to hone in on what you want.
3. Increase the usefulness of the medium by an order of magnitude.
The *only* problem with this analogy is that the people who still don't know exactly what a Tivo does are the same people we're all trying to turn on to RSS. Ugh.
Scott what filtered reader do you use? :)
And it doesn't need to be (unless that's where you're hoping to get rich).
I'm not a "mainstream" type user but I use many of the tools, such as feedreaders (bloglines, newsgator, yahoo), that regular folks might be tempted to use and, so far, they're all a disappointment. For that matter, so is RSS.
I use Feed Digest to mix some feeds for some semipublic projects I have going that are really for my own use, for example: fluxresearch.org
I'm finding that a good way to keep up with select blog and news feeds but some feeds don't play well with others so I can't even mix in everything in that I want.
What I'm trying to get at here is that RSS feeds and tools don't really function well enough to serve advanced users needs even after a lot of tweaking. And even though services like mobile phones have shown us that folks are willing to accept lower grade service if it adds useful functions and is understandable (i.e. it's a telephone with poor call quality but high mobility). The RSS-osphere combines just enough conceptual confusion with so so service to keep it out of mainstream awareness.
RSS needs two things to go mainstream:
improved coding and services
ubiquitous use in the school systems
Or maybe three:
RSS apps that have relevance to kids
Fortunately, for my part, it doesn't matter how mainstream it gets. It's not like folks necessarily improve their coding and services just because they're popular!
RSS needs a filter? But I thought the bloggers were supposed to be doing the filtering.
It would be interesting to look at how people achieve their desired outcome of getting the news they want. It might expand the idea of filtering. It seems to me that I filter news when I choose or don't choose a feed source, when I go to Digg and use their filtering, when I rely on a recommendation via a blog that I trust.
Perhaps looking at all the ways people actually achieve the function of filtering could lead to better forms of feeds and feedreaders as well as new products.
Mike D:
"RSS is to the internet what Tivo is to the television."
You mean, RSS allows me to copy content to watch later?
Wait, you mean, the Tivo allows me to syndicate my content to other sites?
One of the difficulties is that the end user doesn't actually interact with RSS feeds, they use tools that use RSS. Really, focus on the tools and what they provide, not the feed and how it works, and you'll have a much better chance of reaching a mass market.
Would the answer to ''improved coding'' be the migration of content over to XML from HTML?
Just curious.
Josh
"You mean, RSS allows me to copy content to watch later?
Wait, you mean, the Tivo allows me to syndicate my content to other sites?"
I wouldn't conflate the ideas of RSS to content *producers* and RSS to content *consumers*. I think there is much, much less of a problem with producers knowing what RSS is and how they can use it. If they produce, it is their job to know and they will eventually find out. Even in the case of amateurs with Blogger blogs, the RSS feeds are already built in.
It's consumers who need the most handholding, hence the Tivo analogy. "Syndicatable", "shareable", etc aren't the killer apps of RSS for consumers. Customized, cached, push content is. That's exactly what RSS is and that's exactly what Tivo is. To me the only thing consumers need to know about RSS right off the bat is this:
"Instead of constantly checking web sites to see what's new, choose the sites you like and have the new stuff pushed to you automatically so you can read it whenever you want."
Period. That's it.
There are a million other uses for RSS but that's the instant turn on for consumers. The "oh shit" moment, so to speak.